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The purpose of Unions are?
TexINS writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
So I heard that 400k union members are going to go out and try to register as many democrats, err, people as possible on August 25th. So that is what unions do? Is this Obama's version of the brown shirts or SS. Pretty scary. Hopefully some union members will try to witholds their dues to protest this nonsense.
KellyG writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
Is there anything but motivation stopping 400K NRA members from registering people to vote? Or Kiwanis or Masons or any other organization?
Would you withhold membership dues for those organizations as well?
Would you withhold membership dues for those organizations as well?
WJo writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
back when I was very young there were not alot of unions , people took pride in their work & workmanship , the better job you did the better pay you received.....even bonuses were given out if you completed a job before time. Then the unions started to move into every plant & business & demanding more money & more benefits , etc. Pretty soon the owners of the companies & businesses could not afford to meet the higher salaries & benefits & they were forced to either raise prices or close the business . Everything kept getting more expensive to produce & then of course more expensive to purchase. Then our companies started to take the business to other countries where labor was still "cheap" ......now only a few things are made in the USA, everything is shiped to China , Indonesia , Thialand, etc. because the labor is still cheap & the "unions" have not yet been able to cross the ocean ....so please tell me what good are unions & why do we need them ?
KellyG writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
Retired_Engineer writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
I have mixed emotions about unions. Back in the early 1900's, unions were necessary to insure that workers not only got reasonable pay, but forced companies to improved working conditions, safety, etc. As time went on, most companies found that it just made good business sense to maintain these conditions and the unions became less necessary. The formation of OSHA, EPA and other control agencies also made sure workers had safe work environments and rules, which further weakened many unions. If a company treats its workers fairly and safely, the primary issue of unions becomes pay, although they still bring up safety and environment as issues.
I have worked at several unionized refineries and chemical plants. The sad part about unions is that they want every member to be treated equally. This means we could not give bonuses to individuals that performed above and beyond. I've also witnessed (multiple times) union members telling a very productive union member to slow down because he was making the others look bad, and that might make the expectations of the workers increase. There was no incentive to work hard because everyone got exactly the same pay and we could not reward the better performers. If we gave bonuses to union members, each member had to receive exactly the same amount.
One union grievance that I participated in involved a worker that spied on a female coworker as she used the bathroom. We suspended the worker without pay for three days. The union president made the worker sound like a saint in the appeal. Their appeal was denied. As we walked back to our offices with the union president, he told us "Why didn't you fire the SOB? He's been a pain in the a$$ for years!" I told him I was surprised because just a few minutes earlier, he was putting the guy on a pedestal. He said "That's my job as union president. I have to represent all members like they are saints. If you had fired the guy like he deserves, I would have still defended him, but we would have lost and his a$$ would be gone now."
My father was a sheet-metal worker and union steward for many years at Kaiser Aluminum. He said that he finally stopped being a steward because of all the BS that you had to do and that he spent most of his time defending lazy, incompetent coworkers.
As I stated, I have mixed emotions about unions. They are probably still needed in some places, but they are also one of the reasons that many US companies are outsourcing work to other countries.
I have worked at several unionized refineries and chemical plants. The sad part about unions is that they want every member to be treated equally. This means we could not give bonuses to individuals that performed above and beyond. I've also witnessed (multiple times) union members telling a very productive union member to slow down because he was making the others look bad, and that might make the expectations of the workers increase. There was no incentive to work hard because everyone got exactly the same pay and we could not reward the better performers. If we gave bonuses to union members, each member had to receive exactly the same amount.
One union grievance that I participated in involved a worker that spied on a female coworker as she used the bathroom. We suspended the worker without pay for three days. The union president made the worker sound like a saint in the appeal. Their appeal was denied. As we walked back to our offices with the union president, he told us "Why didn't you fire the SOB? He's been a pain in the a$$ for years!" I told him I was surprised because just a few minutes earlier, he was putting the guy on a pedestal. He said "That's my job as union president. I have to represent all members like they are saints. If you had fired the guy like he deserves, I would have still defended him, but we would have lost and his a$$ would be gone now."
My father was a sheet-metal worker and union steward for many years at Kaiser Aluminum. He said that he finally stopped being a steward because of all the BS that you had to do and that he spent most of his time defending lazy, incompetent coworkers.
As I stated, I have mixed emotions about unions. They are probably still needed in some places, but they are also one of the reasons that many US companies are outsourcing work to other countries.
HumbleGirl writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
My daddy is a recently retired union rep up north. He represented a bunch of factories, plants, teachers unions etc. He also was a member of the electoral college and campaigned for Hilary Clinton and the President Obama.
Me being in management of a non-unionized business, we've had some lively debates on the subject. He has had some horror stories of employees he had to represent even though they didn't deserve it.
Historically - more pros than cons but now it's probably the opposite in many cases.
Me being in management of a non-unionized business, we've had some lively debates on the subject. He has had some horror stories of employees he had to represent even though they didn't deserve it.
Historically - more pros than cons but now it's probably the opposite in many cases.
kpdad writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
As of 2011, the union membership rate for all workers in the US was 11.8%, which is down from 20% in 1983. That means just over one out of every ten workers today is unionized. Of these 14.8 million workers, almost 40% work in the public sector--in jobs in government, etc. that can't be outsourced. That means about 9 million workers in the *private sector* are unionized.
Thus, I find it incredible to argue that a few million Americans workers in a country of 300 million people are the reason why companies are outsourcing. In fact, more companies have outsourced since Reagan even though the unionization rate has nearly halved from 20% to 11.8%... so as Americans *leave* unions companies are also *leaving* our country.
Why? Because let's say you are Apple, and you want to make Iphones and PowerBooks, and you want to maximize profit which is your capitalistic right... so you have a choice. You can open a factory in China, where the workers make a dollar a day, don't ask for health care, don't ask for pensions, and work 16 hours a day without bitching for coffee breaks, or, you can open a factory in Texas, where even without unions the average Houstonian will want more than a dollar a day, some kind of health insurance, some kind of retirement plan, and no more than 8 hours a work a day.
Unions are only a small part of the picture. Outsourcing happens because our companies are exercising their right to pursue profit overseas, and have no obligation to hire workers who are more expensive just because they are fellow citizens. Until Americans stop b*tching and learn to compete with Asian workers then let the outsourcing continue--unless you want to pay $2000 for your next mobile phone, which is what it would cost if Samsung or Apple were to be forced to pay American wages to workers here.
Thus, I find it incredible to argue that a few million Americans workers in a country of 300 million people are the reason why companies are outsourcing. In fact, more companies have outsourced since Reagan even though the unionization rate has nearly halved from 20% to 11.8%... so as Americans *leave* unions companies are also *leaving* our country.
Why? Because let's say you are Apple, and you want to make Iphones and PowerBooks, and you want to maximize profit which is your capitalistic right... so you have a choice. You can open a factory in China, where the workers make a dollar a day, don't ask for health care, don't ask for pensions, and work 16 hours a day without bitching for coffee breaks, or, you can open a factory in Texas, where even without unions the average Houstonian will want more than a dollar a day, some kind of health insurance, some kind of retirement plan, and no more than 8 hours a work a day.
Unions are only a small part of the picture. Outsourcing happens because our companies are exercising their right to pursue profit overseas, and have no obligation to hire workers who are more expensive just because they are fellow citizens. Until Americans stop b*tching and learn to compete with Asian workers then let the outsourcing continue--unless you want to pay $2000 for your next mobile phone, which is what it would cost if Samsung or Apple were to be forced to pay American wages to workers here.
ruk72 writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
TexINS writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
@KellyG people join those groups voluntarily and I doubt you would lose your job or get kicked out of the NRA is you didn't go and register as many minorities, er, voters as possible.
Anyway, those groups aren't doing it, the SEIU and other Obama unions are taking the place of Acorn and registering as many people (dead or alive) as possible. I didn't think that was their purpose.
Anyway, those groups aren't doing it, the SEIU and other Obama unions are taking the place of Acorn and registering as many people (dead or alive) as possible. I didn't think that was their purpose.
kpdad writes: ( 9 mos. ago )
No, but unions are private organizations and they do have the right to do whatever the hell they want.
Keep in mind union membership has been dropping for decades, another 10-15 years and they will be irrelevant. The right-wing media makes them out to be a far greater threat than they truly are. And I wouldn't mind if some of our own conservative grass-roots organizations went out and aggressively hunted for new voters.
Keep in mind union membership has been dropping for decades, another 10-15 years and they will be irrelevant. The right-wing media makes them out to be a far greater threat than they truly are. And I wouldn't mind if some of our own conservative grass-roots organizations went out and aggressively hunted for new voters.
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